Wonder if you are aware of Rudolf Steiner's similar "spiritual scientific" theory that animals and humans all descended together from the spiritual to the physical plane. "Neither side develops from the other; instead both stem from the same common mixed form." says Arthur Auer about Steiner's theory. Animals were rather filtered out as humanity was distilled into physical form, "... all the qualities distributed throughout the animal kingdom were in the human being... Through this man was able to develop further [Translator)]." Humans reached a higher stage of individuation/autonomy at the expense of instinctual security. "The present insecurity is necessary to reach security at a higher stage. Man adapts himself to higher stages. Thus his becoming insecure is the guarantee that he becomes independent. To have remained secure denotes something that has not advanced to the point where the ego can work in the individual being." (from Steiner's Lecture GA 97)
A very big thank you for this! I was not aware. But I am delighted to find these breadcrumbs as they align also with a very great but under-appreciated myth from ancient India. I'll try to connect the dots some day in a new post.
The point about 'the same common mixed form' is, I think, pretty crucial. Steiner's insight isn't fortuitous, I'd say, since his initial 'training' was in Blavatskaya's theosophy (where the human -> animal version exists).
And most crucial of all is, no doubt, to climb out of the evolutionary dogma derived from Darwin's notion of ape -> human, one of those mind-programming traps that usefully goes with the notion of 'Earth as an insignificant rock in a galactic suburb' to keep us 'small' in all the wrong ways.
The last statement about insecurity is a gem - ever so relevant to our present times!
The insight you contribute also, on the other hand, raises what is for me a very large question. With all the spiritual discourse about 'descent from he spiritual to the physical plane', scant attention seems to be paid pretty much everywhere to the great difficulty involved in manifesting the physical. Especially if said physical is to contribute to the greater picture in harmonious rather than nefarious ways. And said great difficulty seems to go hand in hand with great desirability of physical manifestation, although this is seldom acknowledged.
Dear Enna, (Getting the hang of new types of correspondence!)
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I love it when the work of teachers I appreciate can be compared/compiled - giving the feeling of "following the breadcrumbs" as you say - all the way to clearer and clearer glimpses of truth! I have been following your interviews and have ordered 2 copies of Krivda to read with a friend! As to Steiner, he was very much about "growing down" into the physical, as he says in his Waldorf pedagogy. Also, following Goethe, he favored a phenomenological approach, prescribing several meditations involving penetrating natural (and manmade) objects with the "I" in order to properly perceive reality. He considered spirit to pervade all, attributing etheric realms to animals, plants, and even minerals (his "math gnomes" enthralling second graders). His primary focus was on enacting natural human powers of thinking, feeling, and willing, and he considered ethics most important, recommending a "golden rule" of taking 3 steps morally to every 1 step ventured to advance spiritually. His biodynamic farming/medicine and eurythmy practices, aligning both with your love of natural farming methods and of languages, also attest to his opinion of the importance of connecting to the spirit through the physical.
Looking forward to following you here and to reading your book(s), and envisioning a brighter future, Leah
Thank you so much for bringing Steiner wisdom into the discussion - you clearly know his material well. Far better than I do, for I'm too much of a peasant and have absorbed only bits and pieces of his work.
The phrase 'growing down into the physical' packs a big charge - it says directly the importance of rootedness in the physical (while we are in embodiment), and it says indirectly that we modern people have lost the natural rootedness of 'less advanced' former or indigenous cultures. And such 'growing down' is not something that most modern people are attracted to, since they fear or idealize Nature, fear the hard work of such growing down and are so programmed to grow up and out of the physical. I should know! I was that modern individual, and 'anthropology in the field' threw me mercilessly into that dreaded physical reality. I hated it yet I was hooked. My 'growing down' is happily ongoing, and irreversible. Having to scrub my dirty feet and nails in order to be 'civilized' when I must go to the big city, never fails to remind me of the traumatization of our peasant ancestors torn out of Nature to serve the machine monster of this or that industrial revolution.
People who are 'down in the physical' in natural ways know that the spirit(s) are all-pervading in the material, so do not suffer the polarized dichotomy of spirit vs matter, soul vs body, etc.
That is where the 'Broody' book after 'Krivda' goes... in mystical peasant style.
And I am quite convinced that overcoming such artificially implanted dichotomies is a very large key to the 'brighter future' you mention. It's already in us, always has been.
Very glad to have you here among these restorers of human paths, Leah!
Wonder if you are aware of Rudolf Steiner's similar "spiritual scientific" theory that animals and humans all descended together from the spiritual to the physical plane. "Neither side develops from the other; instead both stem from the same common mixed form." says Arthur Auer about Steiner's theory. Animals were rather filtered out as humanity was distilled into physical form, "... all the qualities distributed throughout the animal kingdom were in the human being... Through this man was able to develop further [Translator)]." Humans reached a higher stage of individuation/autonomy at the expense of instinctual security. "The present insecurity is necessary to reach security at a higher stage. Man adapts himself to higher stages. Thus his becoming insecure is the guarantee that he becomes independent. To have remained secure denotes something that has not advanced to the point where the ego can work in the individual being." (from Steiner's Lecture GA 97)
Dear leah,
A very big thank you for this! I was not aware. But I am delighted to find these breadcrumbs as they align also with a very great but under-appreciated myth from ancient India. I'll try to connect the dots some day in a new post.
The point about 'the same common mixed form' is, I think, pretty crucial. Steiner's insight isn't fortuitous, I'd say, since his initial 'training' was in Blavatskaya's theosophy (where the human -> animal version exists).
And most crucial of all is, no doubt, to climb out of the evolutionary dogma derived from Darwin's notion of ape -> human, one of those mind-programming traps that usefully goes with the notion of 'Earth as an insignificant rock in a galactic suburb' to keep us 'small' in all the wrong ways.
The last statement about insecurity is a gem - ever so relevant to our present times!
The insight you contribute also, on the other hand, raises what is for me a very large question. With all the spiritual discourse about 'descent from he spiritual to the physical plane', scant attention seems to be paid pretty much everywhere to the great difficulty involved in manifesting the physical. Especially if said physical is to contribute to the greater picture in harmonious rather than nefarious ways. And said great difficulty seems to go hand in hand with great desirability of physical manifestation, although this is seldom acknowledged.
Thank you again for giving me more to chew on!
Dear Enna, (Getting the hang of new types of correspondence!)
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I love it when the work of teachers I appreciate can be compared/compiled - giving the feeling of "following the breadcrumbs" as you say - all the way to clearer and clearer glimpses of truth! I have been following your interviews and have ordered 2 copies of Krivda to read with a friend! As to Steiner, he was very much about "growing down" into the physical, as he says in his Waldorf pedagogy. Also, following Goethe, he favored a phenomenological approach, prescribing several meditations involving penetrating natural (and manmade) objects with the "I" in order to properly perceive reality. He considered spirit to pervade all, attributing etheric realms to animals, plants, and even minerals (his "math gnomes" enthralling second graders). His primary focus was on enacting natural human powers of thinking, feeling, and willing, and he considered ethics most important, recommending a "golden rule" of taking 3 steps morally to every 1 step ventured to advance spiritually. His biodynamic farming/medicine and eurythmy practices, aligning both with your love of natural farming methods and of languages, also attest to his opinion of the importance of connecting to the spirit through the physical.
Looking forward to following you here and to reading your book(s), and envisioning a brighter future, Leah
Leah,
Thank you so much for bringing Steiner wisdom into the discussion - you clearly know his material well. Far better than I do, for I'm too much of a peasant and have absorbed only bits and pieces of his work.
The phrase 'growing down into the physical' packs a big charge - it says directly the importance of rootedness in the physical (while we are in embodiment), and it says indirectly that we modern people have lost the natural rootedness of 'less advanced' former or indigenous cultures. And such 'growing down' is not something that most modern people are attracted to, since they fear or idealize Nature, fear the hard work of such growing down and are so programmed to grow up and out of the physical. I should know! I was that modern individual, and 'anthropology in the field' threw me mercilessly into that dreaded physical reality. I hated it yet I was hooked. My 'growing down' is happily ongoing, and irreversible. Having to scrub my dirty feet and nails in order to be 'civilized' when I must go to the big city, never fails to remind me of the traumatization of our peasant ancestors torn out of Nature to serve the machine monster of this or that industrial revolution.
People who are 'down in the physical' in natural ways know that the spirit(s) are all-pervading in the material, so do not suffer the polarized dichotomy of spirit vs matter, soul vs body, etc.
That is where the 'Broody' book after 'Krivda' goes... in mystical peasant style.
And I am quite convinced that overcoming such artificially implanted dichotomies is a very large key to the 'brighter future' you mention. It's already in us, always has been.
Very glad to have you here among these restorers of human paths, Leah!